Insights Into Teens: Episode 173 “Cancel Culture”

00:00:03:03 - 00:00:52:26
Michelle
Insightful podcasts by informative host insights into Things, a podcast network. Welcome to Insights into Teens, a podcast series exploring the issues and challenges of today's youth. Your hosts are Joseph and Madison Whalen, a father and daughter team making their way through the challenges of the teenage years.

00:00:52:28 - 00:01:06:21
Joseph
Welcome to Insights into Teens. This is episode 173 Cancel Culture. I'm your host, Joseph Whalen, and my objective and understanding co-host Madison Whalen.

00:01:06:24 - 00:01:07:24
Madison
Hi, everyone.

00:01:07:27 - 00:01:09:21
Joseph
How are you doing today, Matty?

00:01:09:23 - 00:01:11:12
Madison
I'm doing all right. How about you?

00:01:11:17 - 00:01:20:20
Joseph
I'm doing okay as well. We are back from another week off. We seem to be taking a lot of those. Last week was the holiday, obviously, now.

00:01:20:20 - 00:01:27:07
Madison
So and also a very ceremonious time for me because I have finally gotten my braces off.

00:01:27:08 - 00:01:36:18
Joseph
Yes, you have. Let's give a big smile for the camera there. Braces are off, but you are wearing a retainer, right?

00:01:36:19 - 00:01:37:29
Madison
Yes, I am.

00:01:38:02 - 00:01:47:10
Joseph
And I kind of have some issues with It's a two part retainer. Top and bottom. Yes. And you had some issues with the bottom of that real quick?

00:01:47:12 - 00:02:06:18
Madison
Yeah. For some reason, like, I knew I was going to feel pain when it came to both the top and the bottom retainers. And like, I've gotten used to the top in the few days that I've had it. But when it comes to the bottom, every time I'm in like excruciating pain to the point where I have to get like ice or something and that doesn't seem normal.

00:02:06:18 - 00:02:19:00
Madison
And like I can feel a spot in my gums that like, feels sore because of it. So Mommy suggested we basically call the orthodontist, and I have an appointment to check that out, so.

00:02:19:03 - 00:02:29:01
Joseph
All right. Well, hopefully we can get that taken care of for you and get you back on the road to recovery there. And look on the bright side. Braces are off, though, right?

00:02:29:06 - 00:02:29:27
Madison
Yep.

00:02:30:00 - 00:02:56:08
Joseph
We're right. That's not what we're talking about today, though. Today we are talking about cancel culture, which seems to dominate social media, the news and society in general. But what is it? What impact does it have and can it be used for constructive purposes? And more importantly, what effect does it have on teens? Well, that's what we're going to be discussing on today's episode of Insight into Teens.

00:02:56:11 - 00:03:17:22
Joseph
But before we get to that, I do want to take a moment to invite all of our listening and viewing audience to subscribe to the podcast. You can find audio versions of this podcast listed as insights into teens. You can find video and audio of all the network's podcasts listed as insights into things, and you can find us pretty much anywhere you get a podcast these days.

00:03:17:23 - 00:03:47:25
Joseph
Apple, Spotify, Google, Stitcher, iHeartRadio and so forth. I would also invite you to write in. Give us your feedback on this sound we're doing. Give us topics you'd like us to discuss. You can email us at comments and insight to the things dot com. You can find us on Twitter at Insights underscore things or you can find links to all those and more for our social media links on our web site at WW dot Insights.

00:03:47:25 - 00:03:55:12
Joseph
Anything no just w WW w insights into things. Dot com shouldn't be giving out the wrong address there.

00:03:55:16 - 00:03:56:21
Madison
Probably best.

00:03:56:27 - 00:03:58:07
Joseph
Anyway. Ready to get into it.

00:03:58:14 - 00:03:59:03
Madison
Yep.

00:03:59:05 - 00:04:05:24
Joseph
Here we go.

00:04:05:26 - 00:04:40:16
Joseph
So what is cancel culture. Even as tales of cancel culture fill newspapers and social media feeds, disagreement on its definition and impact continue. Some consider cancel culture an important tool for accountability and social justice. This perspective is a way of combatting through collective action. Some of the huge power imbalances that often exist between public figures with their far reaching platforms and audiences and the people and communities, their words and actions may harm.

00:04:40:18 - 00:04:50:00
Joseph
Meanwhile, critics of the trend view it as the rule of merciless Internet mobs. That sounds kind of kind of scary there, doesn't it?

00:04:50:05 - 00:04:51:25
Madison
Yes, it does.

00:04:51:27 - 00:05:23:24
Joseph
Alternatives to canceling people are seen in the concepts of calling out and calling in. Calling out is understood as publicly shaming another person for behavior she deemed unacceptable. Calling in is about pointing out issues privately with respect and compassion. But cancel culture isn't just about public shaming. It's about lasting professional consequences. Or at least that's the usual. That's usually the intent.

00:05:23:26 - 00:05:45:19
Joseph
Public shaming is followed by calls to cancel a person to smirk their career and oust them from society. Calls for cancellation originating on social media don't always stick, but they can lead to firings, resignations and lasting emotional and mental trauma for those targeted.

00:05:45:21 - 00:06:20:05
Madison
So when did cancel culture originate? So the modern idea of cancel culture began to bubble up in the in mid 2019, peaking in July 2020, right after former President Donald Trump denounced the phenomenon. That was followed by calls from the media condemning the stifling of dissent, of dissent. But the seemingly modern process of cancellation predates social media, where it's often said to dominate the conversation.

00:06:20:07 - 00:06:55:27
Madison
The term originated from the 1991 film New Jack City, and years later was widely used by black thinkers and comedians on Twitter in the mid 20 tens as a way to seriously or jokingly disapprove of another person's comments or actions. And the concept of social ostracism clearly goes back to the earliest forms of society. Cavemen were likely shunning each other for transgressions long before language existed.

00:06:56:00 - 00:07:45:02
Joseph
So cancel culture, even though it's something that's kind of talked about a lot today, it's not something that's new. And really, cancel culture has always been something that societies that are open and in free markets like we have here. It's always been something that has been a tool mostly for the public. You know, if a company does something wrong or if a you know, if a car manufacturer and I go back to the 1970s when you had one particular car was found in a very well published book by Ralph Nader to be unsafe.

00:07:45:02 - 00:08:09:12
Joseph
The book, in fact, was called Unsafe at Any Speed and through numerous tests and so forth, they found that there was defects with a car that basically made it explode if it was hit in the rear. But through that book, there was a call to action that forced the manufacturer to make changes. That really was a form of cancel culture back then.

00:08:09:15 - 00:08:23:27
Joseph
And that was a way for people who didn't have the power. I mean, the only power that you have as a consumer is where you spend your money, or in the case of social media, who gets your attention? Who gets your eyes on the Internet?

00:08:23:29 - 00:08:24:17
Madison
Yeah.

00:08:24:19 - 00:08:51:09
Joseph
You know, you don't have the ability to impose fines on Twitter. You don't have the ability to pick up the phone and call Elon Musk if you think he's doing something wrong with his platform. So the only thing that you can and I don't want to pick on Twitter and Musk, although I do a lot, but it's a very target rich environment when it comes to Elon Musk, I think.

00:08:51:11 - 00:08:59:02
Joseph
But, you know, the only choice that you have in that situation is to not give them your attention in your business.

00:08:59:03 - 00:09:00:11
Madison
Yeah.

00:09:00:13 - 00:09:21:04
Joseph
And what happens is that because of the Internet and social media, now it's very easy to get a group of people to go along with that philosophy. So it's magnify the the power of cancel culture or whatever we call it before we call it cancel culture, but it's not new.

00:09:21:11 - 00:09:22:09
Madison
Yeah.

00:09:22:11 - 00:09:48:02
Joseph
Have you seen Cancel Culture in social events or at school or something on a smaller scale that's affected teens or people in school or people your age where, you know, one of the things that happened a lot is clicks in school. And when you have a clique in school and they decide that they don't want to let the new kid into this click or they don't want to talk to them, that's a former cancel culture, too.

00:09:48:06 - 00:09:52:17
Joseph
Have you seen anything like that in your experience?

00:09:52:19 - 00:10:15:25
Madison
It's it was probably something that was going on in the background, but it wasn't really something that I tended to dwell on all that much, at least when it came to school. Like there were definitely times where, like, people didn't want you to, like, play with them or anything, especially when you were younger. But like, you kind of learned, you know, to deal with it.

00:10:15:27 - 00:10:33:15
Madison
I never really took too much mind to it. It wasn't something that completely affected me. But I definitely do know that. I definitely think I was aware that that kind of stuff would tend to happen in certain instances.

00:10:33:18 - 00:10:57:08
Joseph
Well, and it's interesting that you point out the fact that it's kind of a learned skill that people would do this at a young age as kids where they don't want to play with you. Maybe it's because of the way you dress or the way you look or your hair or, you know, when I was in school was if you didn't have the nice clothes, then you were considered poor and they didn't want to play with you.

00:10:57:10 - 00:11:27:08
Joseph
And I think, you know, I was in school for some years ago and you were in school. You're in school now? Not now. Now, but, you know, currently. And I think the fact that that amount of time has passed kind of tells you that cancel culture is really ingrained in social society. It's something that's learned early. And if you look back, you know, the article we quoted here mentioned the caveman.

00:11:27:10 - 00:11:59:01
Joseph
And if you look back at caveman or even now with with some of the more remote Aboriginal cultures, there is a survival aspect to cancel culture when it comes to distancing yourself from people. You know, you have people who maybe are sick and they're cast out or people who get injured and can't perform to contribute to society, and they're cast out in some situations.

00:11:59:03 - 00:12:28:23
Joseph
You have some people who do something that's contrary to the natural order of that society, and they're ostracized, ized for it. And that's because people who who go against that grain, who are who are I don't wanna say antisocial, but they're the people that disrupt the natural order of things. Often times are perceived as a threat, and as a result, they're canceled from that culture.

00:12:29:00 - 00:12:43:06
Joseph
Quite literally, as a as a form of natural self-preservation. So the concept of cancel culture isn't new. It isn't unique. It's just magnified now.

00:12:43:08 - 00:12:44:22
Madison
Yep.

00:12:44:24 - 00:12:51:23
Joseph
Where have you seen cancel culture in the media? Have you seen it with brands or companies or anything like that?

00:12:51:26 - 00:13:25:10
Madison
Yes, I have. This might be a bit of a hot topic, but it's something that I've kind of taken into consideration. It was targeted during Pride Month and how there was this huge uproar about like how Tiger was catering to the community and how there were so many people that would not only completely boycott Target from and not do anything or buy anything, but some people that would protest the establishment by like destroying the signs.

00:13:25:12 - 00:13:26:02
Joseph
Yeah.

00:13:26:04 - 00:13:37:03
Madison
So, yeah. And then like that caused Target to basically almost get canceled in a way that they didn't really want to have too many of their products out anymore.

00:13:37:06 - 00:14:12:23
Joseph
Well, and then you look at Disney, whose is really going the opposite end of the spectrum. Most people know that Disney has kind of gotten into a bit of a fighting match with Ron DeSantis down there in Florida because under their former CEO, they came out against what was labeled as the don't say gay bill. Bob Chapek, the former CEO, had been pressured by a lot of his employees to say something publicly to to support his employees because there's a a large LGBTQ community that work at Disney.

00:14:12:26 - 00:14:38:15
Joseph
And when he did come out against it, he was he probably didn't come out the best way possible and didn't really handle it very well. But he made an enemy out of the Santas. And DeSantis has made it his personal war to get back at Disney now. Well, fast forward and shopping's out and Bob Iger is back in.

00:14:38:17 - 00:15:12:27
Joseph
And instead of getting into a public argument and trying not to fight it out with the Santas, they just doubled down on their support of the community. They're having, you know, pride events. They're having parades. They're inviting conventions that are LGBT centric conventions and basically reinforcing their support of the community, which while Ron DeSantis tried to cancel Disney, Disney basically just ignored him and went on and and a company the size of Disney could get away with that.

00:15:12:28 - 00:15:52:04
Joseph
Yeah. You know someone like a target maybe if they had doubled down on their pride, they could have pushed back instead of backing off on it. I don't know. I don't know what their situation is. Yeah, but that's a good example of, of each side of that where cancel culture and one example had the if the desired effect of the protesters were cancel culture on the other side which ironically I have to say most of the individuals who have come out against cancel culture in the article even talks about it are conservative Republicans.

00:15:52:06 - 00:15:55:01
Joseph
Unless it's canceling what they don't want.

00:15:55:04 - 00:15:55:23
Madison
Yep.

00:15:55:25 - 00:16:25:07
Joseph
Then cancel cultures. Okay, so I'm not going to dwell on it. This podcast is not about hypocrisy, although we probably will have one coming up in the near future. But you can't have it both ways. You can't be against cancel culture when it's disadvantage. It's disadvantageous for you, but for when it's event advantageous for you. So that's kind of where part of my issue with the whole thing comes in.

00:16:25:14 - 00:16:26:23
Madison
Yeah.

00:16:26:25 - 00:17:09:25
Joseph
So I think a quick break and come back and we'll talk about why you should care about cancel culture. We'll be right back. For over seven years, the second SF Empire has been the premier community guild in the online game, Star Wars, The Old Republic with hundreds of friendly and helpful active members, a weekly schedule of nightly events, annual guild, meet and greets, and an active community both on the Web and on Discord.

00:17:09:27 - 00:17:45:03
Joseph
The Second Civ Empire is more than your typical gaming group. We're family. Join us on the Star Forge server for nightly events such as opera shows, Flashpoints, World Boss Funds, Star Wars, Trivia Guild, Lottery and much more. Visit us on the web today at w w w dark the second civ and fire dot com.

00:17:45:06 - 00:18:14:28
Madison
Welcome back to insights into teens. Today we're talking about cancel culture and that we're going to talk about why you should care about cancel culture. This phenomenon has had a significant impact on not just individuals but on our discourse discourse and has even impacted societal norms. Many of cancel culture's victims are public figures who've suffered professional consequences as a result of the calls for cancellation.

00:18:15:00 - 00:18:50:20
Madison
But the impact of cancellation goes beyond a person's career, although ostracism is not a new practice. Social media has created a particularly Euroland form of mob justice that is degrading this, degrading our already taxed mental health. There is real concern regarding the lasting impact of cancel culture on society and the potential for stifling stifling of dissent on both sides of the political aisle.

00:18:50:21 - 00:19:16:18
Madison
Many have argued that this tendency to cancel transgressors has temper, has hampered, has hampered society's ability to have open and constructive debates. Many thought leaders believe that this culture of stifling discussion and free speech is a particularly detrimental impact of cancel culture.

00:19:16:20 - 00:19:45:21
Joseph
So that's a very interesting point that they make there, and that is that instead of cancel culture being an agent for change, where society sees something happening that's inappropriate or shouldn't happen and it uses cancel culture to change that. What you have now is you have people canceling, people who are pointing out the bad things that other people are doing or the inappropriate things.

00:19:45:24 - 00:20:10:05
Joseph
So they're kind of flipping the script at this point in time. And if if you don't like what I say politically, then your side is trying to cancel me so that I can't have a voice anymore. So it's kind of a distorted approach to cancel culture where they're really turning it against what the constructive purposes of cancel culture are.

00:20:10:07 - 00:20:15:27
Joseph
Have you seen it happen either in public life or politics or anything?

00:20:15:29 - 00:20:38:03
Madison
I mean, yeah, like there are certain people that a lot of people tend to follow who end up getting canceled and then like they kind of double back and like, they continue to support the person that ended up getting canceled by basically saying that like, oh, you just canceled this person because you didn't like what they were saying or you're trying to cancel their voices.

00:20:38:03 - 00:20:56:09
Madison
And especially when it comes to America and the idea of free speech, you know, First Amendment rights or whatever. It's become a pretty big issue to the point where it's like a lot of people tend to use cancel culture and say that it's a negative because it's just an excuse for one side to get their way over and over another side.

00:20:56:12 - 00:21:27:00
Joseph
And one example of this is someone like a Roseanne Barr. So Roseanne Barr had come out and made what we're really inappropriate comments. They were a racially charged and, you know, other attacking other minorities. And she wound up getting literally canceled her show. She had just come back on the air with her Roseanne show was very successful first season and kind of sunk herself when she made these comments and wound up getting getting canceled.

00:21:27:02 - 00:21:58:18
Joseph
And you're seeing some of this happen with some Disney stars. You know, we've had we've seen some stars from some of the Star Wars shows in particular who have said things or done things publicly that are contrary to the companies acceptable, useful, say. And as a result, they've wound up losing their jobs or losing the position that they were in.

00:21:58:21 - 00:22:27:00
Joseph
Is that a justifiable use of cancel culture when a company like Disney will say, Oh, and because they're an immediate example of this or any studio, let's say that any studio out there has an actor and the actor says something or does something that damages the brand of the studio and is contrary to the image the studio wants to portray.

00:22:27:02 - 00:22:40:20
Joseph
Does the studio at that point in time have the right to cancel that person or is that stifling that person's free speech? What do you think? I mean.

00:22:40:23 - 00:23:05:06
Madison
If it's something that like is directed, I'd like to hurt the companies like IP and like their reputation. I'd say they would technically have that power because it's like like you'd probably like if somebody in your company was like, making a mess of things and like talking to other people and saying like, Oh, this company is really bad or whatever.

00:23:05:07 - 00:23:27:16
Madison
Like, they wouldn't want you working there anymore. And like, I feel like they would have the right to basically fire you and say like, Hey, if you're going to be saying that stuff, you're not supposed to be working here anymore. So I would say that they have the right to do that if their work, if the person is working for them and they say things against the company, that against the company and its values.

00:23:27:18 - 00:23:30:07
Joseph
So here's another example. Have you ever heard of Colin Kaepernick?

00:23:30:14 - 00:23:31:02
Madison
No.

00:23:31:05 - 00:24:00:17
Joseph
All right. Colin Kaepernick was a quarterback for an NFL team and as a form of protest during the Black Lives Matter movement and the protest, the violence against African-Americans during the planning of the national anthem before football games, he would kneel. He wouldn't stand. And as a result, he was basically canceled and blacklisted by the NFL and couldn't continue to work in the NFL.

00:24:00:19 - 00:24:30:17
Joseph
And the reason giving given behind it was that the message that he was sending while he was in uniform, basically on the clock for the company, for the NFL, was contrary to what the NFL's policy was and it was hurting viewership and ratings of the NFL. So it was having a financial impact. His claim was that that was his freedom of speech.

00:24:30:17 - 00:24:42:02
Joseph
He was he was expressing his own opinions under those conditions, and he thought he was unjustly attacked for it. How would you rule on something like that?

00:24:42:04 - 00:25:15:04
Madison
Okay. I do remember I was talking about this. So I would say that, hey, you're allowed to basically make those claims. It's fine if you have that opinion. No one should really be stopping you from having that. However, if you're doing it specifically, like in your uniform and in career, like I would say, if you're going to do something like that, wait until like you're not in your job position or like you're not like on the field in uniform.

00:25:15:05 - 00:25:53:28
Madison
Like, if you want to do something like that, then you can totally do it. But if you're working for someone who isn't going to support that publicly and it's going to damage their reputation, I'd say that at that point, it's kind of it is kind of something that the company has to worry about, at least I don't know if they have to full on outright cancel you for it because like again, you can have your own views, but like if you know that the company is going to have a problem with it, like again, you can do that on your own time.

00:25:53:28 - 00:26:03:22
Madison
But like if you're going to do it for a company that would be against something like that and like it would hurt their ratings, I feel the company can have more of a say in it.

00:26:03:28 - 00:26:04:26
Joseph
Okay.

00:26:04:28 - 00:26:18:29
Madison
And like, that's the thing. If he said that, like, if he, like, just posted it and like, he wasn't on duty or anything and it was just like a Twitter post or something, I don't think like the company would have the right to, you know, do anything about it.

00:26:19:04 - 00:26:47:27
Joseph
So that brings me to the next scenario with Gina Carano, who played Cara Dune in The Mandalorian. She in her private time, made a post on social media. I think it was Twitter that was I can see it was I forget what it was attacking. It was attacking. A minority was perceived as attacking a minority. And she was fired.

00:26:47:28 - 00:27:05:00
Joseph
Basically, they canceled her contract. They took her off the show and basically let her go. Now, is that something that Disney was justified in doing or did Disney step on someone's toes there and stifle someone's freedom of speech?

00:27:05:03 - 00:27:29:10
Madison
Yeah, I'd say at that point like this, you probably would have gotten just as any way, even if Disney hadn't done anything about it. And I don't really think Disney needed to fire her if it was just something that she said not related to Disney didn't technically harm the company even if she was working for it, and people could still kind of correlate it to that.

00:27:29:12 - 00:27:42:25
Madison
It's more or less up to, I guess, the public to kind of rep a mentor. And since they can't like directly cancel her, it's more or less up to them to like, say something about it. And I don't think it should have been Disney's responsibility.

00:27:42:27 - 00:28:17:13
Joseph
And I would agree with that. And I think Disney probably overstepped their bounds in the way they reacted to her specific incident. The one thing that I think that didn't really come to light is Disney traditionally has for all their talent. Usually they have a morality clause and you have to act a certain way, even in public and in private and as long as you're under contract with Disney, you can't do certain things that are contrary to what that contract says.

00:28:17:15 - 00:28:29:26
Joseph
I don't recall if she was ever in violation of something like that, but that's the only situation where I think Disney would have any grounds to dictate what she can do. Off company time.

00:28:30:03 - 00:28:31:19
Madison
Yeah.

00:28:31:22 - 00:28:56:26
Joseph
So anyway, moving right along. So has cancel culture changed, you know, whether or not you believe the cancel culture has led to silencing some voices? Has it altered the way you interact online? Does that bleed into how you interact in real life? Do you hold back on expressing possibly controversial thoughts or ideas for the fear of being attacked?

00:28:56:26 - 00:29:31:01
Joseph
Or do you witness a marked shift in the conversations you have with your friends, family and strangers? Those in support of, quote, deserved cancellation argue that it's given power to previously marginalized communities, offering them tools to be heard and helping shape moral standards. Some of us think cancel culture has been misnamed and that instead consequences are finally encompassing everybody in the society, whereas they haven't been ever in this country.

00:29:31:04 - 00:30:00:28
Joseph
This is supported by the mindset that cancel culture is merely a question of accountability, especially in an environment where public figures who say or do bad things continue to have significant influence. Now, I'll go back to what we had talked about previously and say that the true spirit of cancel culture really is designed to empower marginalized communities and give you some power where you didn't have it before.

00:30:01:00 - 00:30:14:27
Joseph
But it's been taken to an extreme now and it's been mutated into something that's now applied to sized weapon. And that's probably where a lot of the issues come from. Bill, what are your thoughts on that?

00:30:15:00 - 00:30:33:10
Madison
Yeah, like, that's the thing. It's like it was kind of a similar thing when we ended up talking about Woke a couple of weeks ago is the idea that both of these had well, despite the fact that woke I still think is inherently good and better and that a lot of people still kind of demonize it for some reason.

00:30:33:18 - 00:31:15:12
Madison
Cancel culture was meant to be something you know productive and for a while it kind of worked. But then it became so heavily politicized that like so many people like are either even are just aggressively against it or somewhat for it. And like, I can definitely see the positives when it comes to cancel culture because kind of like when I said in the woke video, some voices are just never going to change and those voices can genuinely harm a lot of people and probably shouldn't be things that you say to people based on just being a good person.

00:31:15:15 - 00:31:54:09
Madison
But when it comes to other things, it's like it's gone to an extreme now where both sides are trying to use it against each other. And while one side might be more, well, both sides tend to have hypocrisy with it, really, because like they can like it's hard to be both for and against it. And like cancel culture is something I do think has been heavily politicized, especially considering how it's gotten gotten into the public eye, considering the former president and, you know, anything that involves the president has immediately become political at this point.

00:31:54:09 - 00:32:07:17
Madison
And it's it's just another one of those things in society now that at least in the U.S., is something that is heavily politicized, that doesn't really need to be.

00:32:07:20 - 00:32:14:08
Joseph
I agree. So how can we use cancel culture as a tool for change?

00:32:14:11 - 00:32:46:22
Madison
So in the end, the impacts of cancel culture aren't mutually exclusive. A cancellation should simultaneously hold people accountable and lead to trauma for an individual. However, in a polarized political environment, critics often place these impacts at odds instead of in parallel with each other. Cancellation often leads to leads not to silence, but to reinvigorate conversations about what we hold dear as a society and what we will and won't accept.

00:32:46:24 - 00:33:07:09
Joseph
And I think that's probably a very accurate statement, because I think, if nothing else, the last eight years, ten years of politics have kind of showed us that what we as a society will accept has stooped to new lows.

00:33:07:11 - 00:33:35:01
Madison
Yeah, and I've actually seen like various comments on post show, like that's the one thing that keeps going around. But like, oh, this generation can take a joke or like it's something along the lines that relates in some form to cancel culture because a lot of like jokes now, like you have to almost be careful what you say because it could seem offending, it could offend somebody and even get you canceled in some extremes.

00:33:35:03 - 00:34:05:25
Joseph
Yeah. And I think from a politics standpoint, we've moved there was a time not that long ago, certainly within my lifetime, when there was a certain decorum, a certain decency in politics. And when a politician stepped across that line and it was made public, I'll give you Gary Hart as an example. So evidence had surfaced during a presidential campaign and back in the eighties.

00:34:05:25 - 00:34:49:27
Joseph
I want to say I don't remember exactly where he had had an affair with another woman while he was married. And when that information came out and he realized that he couldn't combat it and it was it was he knew it was true. Obviously, he backed out of the race and didn't continue it. You go back to Richard Nixon when Richard Nixon was president of the United States and the Watergate scandal and when that an unexploded on him and he knew that he was guilty and he was going to be impeached and he would probably be found guilty, he at least had the decency to resign from office rather than disgrace the office of the

00:34:49:27 - 00:35:20:15
Joseph
presidency. And put the country through all that turmoil. And you don't have that now. I mean, some of the things that Donald Trump has been convicted of, some of the things he's been indicted for, and some of the things he's accused of and is awaiting trial for, are any one of those things society would have would have basically canceled him ten years ago, 15 years ago.

00:35:20:18 - 00:35:52:16
Joseph
And for some reason, we've lowered our standards so much that a man who gets up on national television and brags about sexually assaulting women can be elected president. What is wrong with our society if we're allowing something like that to happen and you have such a large portion of the voting population who supports him no matter what. Donald Trump could walk down the street tomorrow and shoot somebody in the face and murder them and they'd still support him for some reason.

00:35:52:18 - 00:36:23:21
Joseph
I don't understand that. And that's maybe that's part of the maybe I'm just out of touch from society at this point in time. But I don't know how you could even in a yet, like the most egregiously distorted religious cult, how could you just blindly follow someone who has demonstrated an absolute disregard for the societal norms that we adhere to and then criticize, cancel culture?

00:36:23:23 - 00:36:50:07
Madison
Yeah, and that's the one thing that I've also noticed is like I, I still don't understand it, even though I'm part of today's generation. I don't understand how somebody could almost worship a president because like, I know that like the whole idea of presidents, like almost everybody is pretty much corrupt. You're not going to be able to find the best president ever, because in my eyes, all politicians tend to lie.

00:36:50:12 - 00:37:14:13
Madison
You know, like, you know, I have that mindset. And really it's you've described it this way before, but in the past, voting was kind of like voting for the lesser of two evils and the lesser of two evils was never necessarily evil. It was just, who's going to be slightly more in your favor than the other, right?

00:37:14:15 - 00:37:49:11
Joseph
And now, unfortunately, the choices that you have, one of those choices consistently seems to be voting for pure evil almost. I mean, that's just my opinion. But that we as a society need to demand better. And until we do and and the one way that we do is through cancel culture. And what we've allowed is we've allowed that segment of society that is well below the standards of where society should be to turn.

00:37:49:17 - 00:38:18:03
Joseph
The one power that the average citizen had to make a difference in the world weapon against those people. And that's really the tragedy here. We're going to take our second break and then we're going to come back and talk about cancel culture's direct impact on teens. We'll be right back.

00:38:18:05 - 00:38:50:04
Michelle
Insights into entertainment, a podcast series taking a deeper look into entertainment and media. Our husband and wife team of pop culture fanatics are exploring all things from music and movies to television and fandom. We'll look at the interesting and obscure entertainment news of the week. We'll talk about theme park and pop culture news. We'll give you the latest and greatest on pop culture conventions.

00:38:50:06 - 00:39:16:27
Michelle
We'll give you a deep dive into Disney, Star Wars and much more. Check out our video episodes at YouTube.com. Backslash Insights into things are audio episodes at Podcast Insights into entertainment dot com. Or check us out on the web at insights into things icon.

00:39:16:29 - 00:39:19:19
Joseph
I didn't transition. I pushed the wrong button again. It's okay.

00:39:19:22 - 00:39:21:14
Madison
It's fine. We will fix it.

00:39:21:14 - 00:39:26:05
Joseph
I'm just that look on your face is worth it.

00:39:26:07 - 00:39:59:20
Madison
Anyway, welcome back to Insights into teens. Today we're talking about cancel culture and now we're going to talk about cancel culture as direct impact on teens. There are times when cancellations lead to social change or combat inequality. Cancel culture's effects are due largely to social media for its easy access, large audience, and etc. Canceling an individual or entity involves blocking, unfollowing and or verbally targeting them through social media platforms.

00:39:59:22 - 00:40:04:27
Madison
The cancellation of celebrities and public officials often becomes big news.

00:40:04:29 - 00:40:40:04
Joseph
Teenage cancel culture takes place both online and in real life. Commenting, unfollowing, bullying, ignoring, and isolating a problem are common experiences a teen can have when they've been canceled by peers. This can be in response to a teen making racist or homophobic comments, making a tasteless joke, being a toxic friend and so forth. For many teens, cancellation is the worst punishment imaginable because rejection by their peer group is this age.

00:40:40:04 - 00:40:53:17
Joseph
Groups biggest fear teens are particularly vulnerable to social influences because the regions of the brain involved in the social aspects of life are still maturing.

00:40:53:20 - 00:41:33:10
Madison
Being canceled can lead to teen anxiety, depression, trauma and suicidal thoughts, and behavior cancellations can lead to social ostracism. And at an age when peer connections are incredibly important, this can be devastating teen to cancel. Others may do so because they have strong moral convictions convictions, and that is to be acknowledged. But teenage cancel culture gives teens the permission to bypass empathy and forgiveness in favor of being right rather than learning to have debates about topics they disagree on, cancel or simply shut out those they deem wrong.

00:41:33:12 - 00:41:56:18
Madison
As for the teens on the sidelines, they often suffer from anxiety and fear they will be next and or guilt. Guilt about not standing up for someone who was harshly canceled. Less horrors alterations of cancel it to cancellation can include calling out or calling in someone as previously discussed.

00:41:56:21 - 00:42:16:28
Joseph
So based on what we've talked about so far with cancel culture and the impact that it has, do you know anybody at school over the last few years who has been affected by cancel culture and experience any of these types of things?

00:42:17:01 - 00:42:44:13
Madison
I'm not entirely sure. I've found that I tend to surround myself with people that tend to have similar opinions and ideas to me. So I haven't entirely experienced this sort of stuff, but I can certainly understand and how it can be a huge issue, even if it's for my something somebody said that was kind of insulting.

00:42:44:15 - 00:43:04:03
Joseph
As the school had any kind of training or any kind of program. Like I know they've got an anti-bullying in place and so forth. Do they have anything that kind of addresses this and in how teens should deal with it, or does the staff talk about this on any level or any of the counselors or anything?

00:43:04:06 - 00:43:33:09
Madison
I would say that they probably do, because there was this group therapy that ended up coming up for And my one counselor got me to be in it. And like they basically, like ask for kids perspectives on what they want to talk about and such. And I feel like that's a good opportunity to bring up, you know, talk about teen cancel culture in the ways that, like your peers don't want to associate with you because of something you said.

00:43:33:17 - 00:44:02:08
Joseph
Okay. So how can parents help their teens cope with cancel culture? It's important for parents to have conversations with teens about cancel culture and mental health. Here are some tips for parents to help prevent the harmful effects of cancel culture. Help your teen understand the consequences of teen cancel culture. Teens may not realize how cancel culture can be cyberbullying if it's used in a way that shames ostracize.

00:44:02:08 - 00:44:31:13
Joseph
As a classmate, even the one who has done something offensive. Talk to your teen about the importance of understanding what others feel and think, even if even if you do not agree with them. Validate your teen's emotions about cancel culture, whether it involves classmates or celebrities, even if the issues do not seem serious to you. Recognize how meaningful they may seem to your teen.

00:44:31:15 - 00:44:56:17
Madison
Teach your teen to think twice before posting on social media and avoiding engagement when one is feeling emotional. For teens who are canceling, others try to understand the behavior. Did they feel like canceling people is the only way they can keep friends or be a leader? Has canceling become an unhealthy way for them to boost their self-esteem? Explore more effective ways that they can share their beliefs and values.

00:44:56:20 - 00:45:14:23
Madison
If your teen has been canceled, do not judge him or her for their actions. If they did or said something problematic, use this as a way. No. Use this as an opportunity to discuss it and help them see why it was harmful.

00:45:14:25 - 00:45:47:02
Joseph
It's important to start conversations with your teenager to understand their intentions and perspectives. The social media world changes constantly, and we're not always in the loop. Offering a safe and non-judgmental open forum with teens creates a space to not only bridge the miscommunication gap, but also build a stronger relationship of acceptance, empathy and change. So with that said, I and I have an answer, which is kind of shocking to me.

00:45:47:02 - 00:45:55:12
Joseph
But have you experienced cancel culture at any point in time in school or with friends or anything like that?

00:45:55:15 - 00:46:08:14
Madison
I mean, not entirely. I mean, there was this one time when I was like a child, but I think it was honestly probably the best way they could have handled this.

00:46:08:16 - 00:46:31:12
Madison
I ended up saying something when I was like really young when we were playing a game that could certainly be seen as offensive and like I had no idea about it. And like the people who were at my aftercare were basically kind of saying, Hey, you probably shouldn't be saying stuff like that. You know, it's probably not it's not good for a lot of people to hear and stuff.

00:46:31:12 - 00:46:45:21
Madison
And like, they technically didn't cancel me for it, but like, they basically, you know, told me like, hey, you probably shouldn't be saying something like that. And I had no idea that it would kind of seem of could seem offensive.

00:46:45:24 - 00:47:06:04
Joseph
And I can understand that a lot of times people say things. You know, I used to be the type of person in school when I was the class clown. That wasn't always a class clown. I was I like to make people laugh and sometimes you say something before you think about it, and almost as it's coming out of your mouth, you realize, Oh my God, I didn't just say that.

00:47:06:04 - 00:47:23:15
Joseph
That I. And then you faced the consequences for it, as have Mommy And I provided an open environment, a nurturing environment for you to talk about these types of things, even though you've not experienced them so far.

00:47:23:18 - 00:47:56:16
Madison
I mean, yeah, like a lot of this podcast was really about like discussions we've had before that was like, I remember us bringing up the football player and about the cancel culture that led to him being fired and like I've at our like dinner time talks like we talk about this kind of stuff, we discuss these things. And I definitely think that provides an open environment for us to kind of, you know, mention this of stuff.

00:47:56:19 - 00:48:05:01
Joseph
And final question, and then we'll finish up with the business of the podcast. Cancel culture, good or bad.

00:48:05:03 - 00:48:47:06
Madison
I, um, I feel if it's used in the right ways and at the right times, I do think that it can be beneficial because sometimes people aren't really going to change and the things that they say can certainly hurt people. But in instances kind of like teen cancellation in a point where it's more of a controlled environment and less of like a this is going to change the course of the and how the the laws of my country like if it's just a teen who says something in a fan who I know who says something offensive, I wouldn't necessarily say, you know, completely stop all contact with them.

00:48:47:08 - 00:49:12:14
Madison
Cancel culture is the right mindset to have at that point. It's better to have an actual open discussion about it because something I want to try to do is to be open to opinions that are contrary to my own, because I don't I don't want to be ignorant to other people because like other people can have actual reasons for believing things that I don't believe.

00:49:12:14 - 00:49:33:12
Madison
And I'm and I want to be willing to hear them out and have, you know, constructive criticism when it comes to the way that they think and have an actual constructive conversation to where both of us end up walking away, not feeling like either of us had an argument and that either of us ended up winning it.

00:49:33:15 - 00:49:51:13
Joseph
It's a very woke philosophy you have there. MM That is all we had today. We're going to take a quick break, come back and get your final thoughts and finish things up. We'll be right back.

00:49:51:16 - 00:50:21:12
Madison
All right. So to everybody out there, I just wanted to say that. Much like with the idea of being woke, I wouldn't say that anyone should really be demonizing cancel culture unless it's being used in an incredibly inappropriate way that really shouldn't be doing it. I feel like it can be beneficial in certain instances, and it shouldn't be something that so many people deem as like breaking their rights or anything.

00:50:21:15 - 00:50:36:26
Madison
It is something that can certainly be a problem and is something that I feel should be addressed in different instances. However, ultimately it still can be used for good use and I feel people kind of need to recognize that more.

00:50:36:28 - 00:51:04:18
Joseph
Okay. Sound advice, as always. And before we do go, I want to once again invite our listening and viewing audience to subscribe to the podcast. You can find audio versions of this podcast listed as insights in the teens. You can find video and audio versions of all the network's podcasts listed as insights into things. You can find us on Google Spotify.

00:51:04:19 - 00:51:29:11
Joseph
Tune in Pandora, Castro, Stitcher, or anywhere you get a podcast. I would also invite you to read it and give us your feedback. You can email us at comments and insights into things dot com. You can check out all of our videos on YouTube at YouTube.com slash insights and the things we stream five days a week on both Twitch and YouTube.

00:51:29:13 - 00:51:48:20
Joseph
At Twitch we're on twitch that TVs slash insights into things and you can find us on Facebook at Facebook.com slash insights into things podcast or check out our primary website at WW dot insights into things dot com and you.

00:51:48:22 - 00:51:58:17
Madison
And don't forget to check out our other two podcast insights into entertainment hosted by you and Mommy. We have plenty of episodes out. Not really sure when you guys are going to put any new ones out.

00:51:58:17 - 00:52:01:03
Joseph
We just did One Country sounds like.

00:52:01:09 - 00:52:08:12
Madison
I'm joking and insights and that tomorrow are not really a monthly podcast hosted by my brother Sam.

00:52:08:12 - 00:52:12:09
Joseph
Hey, we just crank a couple of those out so we're on the ball with all these right now.

00:52:12:12 - 00:52:13:02
Madison
Nice.

00:52:13:02 - 00:52:19:04
Joseph
So check out the website at WW w that insights into things dot com. That's it and out in the books.

00:52:19:04 - 00:52:19:28
Madison
By everyone.

00:52:20:01 - 00:52:20:15
Joseph
By.